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#34099 - 25/02/12 04:36 AM victa pro with tecumseh 13 hp wiring troubles.
leshby Offline
Trainee
Registered: 22/06/11
Posts: 78
Loc: mackay QLD Australia
Hello i have a 1989 victa pro 12. 12 hp Briggs and stratton blew up. Got a 13 hp Tecumseh engine installed with a couple of mods. What i am having troubles with is converting the wiring. Tecumseh has two wires one red dc and one yellow ac then has a green wire that connects to ground on engine i believe . The Briggs only had i black wire to the alternator. how do i wire it all up. I t was re wired by an auto electrician and has a new battery and a voltage rectifier in the circuit according to the victa pro 12 wiring diagram. How does this convert to Tecumseh. Tecumseh Engine model OHV130 266814B Engine Family TTP358U1G2RA Displacement 358 D.O.M 7253 Briggs and stratton engine Model 281707 Type 0213-01 Code 89062211 does the Tecumseh have a voltage regulator attached to the motor.


Edited by leshby (25/02/12 07:48 AM)
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#34104 - 25/02/12 05:22 AM Re: victa pro with tecumseh 13 hp wiring troubles. [Re: leshby]
grumpy Offline
Pushrod Honda preferrer
Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 6030
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
The black wire on a Briggs is the ignition kill wire: its only purpose is to stop the engine. If that is the only wire your engine has, it has no electric starter, and no generator or alternator. Your Tecumseh will have a kill wire too, it is usually dark green. If it also has a yellow wire, it is usually the AC output from an alternator. A red wire is usualy the DC output from a rectifier connected to the alternator. Neither the yellow nor the red wire is any use to you unless you have a battery on your mower. If your Briggs had no generator, it sounds as if your mower is pull-start only, with no battery. If that is the case you will not be using either the red or yellow wire, you will just be using the dark green wire in the same way you previously used the black wire on the Briggs. Incidentally if you have a dark green kill wire, grounding it will prevent your engine from firing whenever it is grounded.
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#34105 - 25/02/12 05:30 AM Re: victa pro with tecumseh 13 hp wiring troubles. [Re: leshby]
Joe Carroll
Unregistered

I think he is talking about the charge wiees, where on a briggs a lot of the time its black wink I am unsure of the wiring myself though.
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#34109 - 25/02/12 05:54 AM Re: victa pro with tecumseh 13 hp wiring troubles. [Re: leshby]
grumpy Offline
Pushrod Honda preferrer
Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 6030
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
leshby, if you give us the model number of the engine, we can see whether its electrical system is covered by the Tecumseh technical manual. A picture of the wires would also help: the type of connector helps to identify the electrical system.
Please also give us the model and type numbers of your dead Briggs engine, so we can try to match the electrical systems.

The general principle of the Tecumseh electrical systems is that the DC output is for battery charging, and the AC output is for the mower's lighting system.


Edited by grumpy (25/02/12 06:50 AM)
Edit Reason: Clarification
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#34112 - 25/02/12 07:06 AM Re: victa pro with tecumseh 13 hp wiring troubles. [Re: leshby]
grumpy Offline
Pushrod Honda preferrer
Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 6030
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
This is the Pro 12 wiring diagram:


Assuming that your wiring is unmodified (a truly heroic assumption when a pre-owned ride-on is involved), your Tecumseh's DC output (red wire) needs to connect to the mower's red wire before the upper diode - in other words, connect the red wire where you previously connected the generator output from the Briggs engine. The Tecumseh's AC output (yellow wire) needs to connect to the mower's white wire after the diode in series with the white wire. The two diodes then both pass rectified current from the AC wire to help charge the battery when the lights are off. The DC wire will only charge the battery, it will not contribute to powering the lights. I don't yet know whether your Tecumseh's green wire is dark green (kill wire, from its coil) or just green. Green wires Not Otherwise Classified from Tecumseh's are usually electrical ground wires. Ground wires need to be grounded, in this case to the mower's frame, or the body of the engine since this is a ride-on, with the engine grounded to the mower through its mountings.


Edited by grumpy (25/02/12 09:34 AM)
Edit Reason: Correction/clarification
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#34129 - 25/02/12 10:48 PM Victa Pro With Tecumesh 13 hp wiring Troubles
leshby Offline
Trainee
Registered: 22/06/11
Posts: 78
Loc: mackay QLD Australia



Hello All Here are some pics of the wiring of the Tecumseh engine in the victa pro 12. The 12 hp Briggs and stratton blew up. Got a 13 hp Tecumseh engine installed with a couple of mods. What i am having troubles with is converting the wiring. Tecumseh has two wires one red dc and one yellow ac then has a green wire that connects to ground on engine i believe . The Briggs only had i black wire to the alternator. how do i wire it all up. I t was re wired by an auto electrician and has a new battery and a voltage rectifier in the circuit according to the victa pro 12 wiring diagram. How does this convert to Tecumseh. Tecumseh Engine model OHV130 266814B Engine Family TTP358U1G2RA Displacement 358 D.O.M 7253 . Briggs and stratton engine Model 281707 Type 0213-01 Code 89062211. Does the Tecumseh have a voltage rectifier attached to the motor at all under the cowling as i have not removed the cowling and don't know what is under there.
All Help Is Always Appreciated
Leshby
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#34135 - 26/02/12 01:30 AM Re: Victa Pro With Tecumesh 13 hp wiring Troubles [Re: leshby]
grumpy Offline
Pushrod Honda preferrer
Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 6030
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Leshby, the green wire is the normal ground wire for the alternator, there is no need to do anything with it, it is already grounded.
Edit: the above statement is incorrect. That is a dark green wire, and it is not grounded, it is connected to an insulated terminal. It is the engine's kill wire, and needs to be connected to the mower's kill circuit.

The only wires you need to be concerned about are the two alternator outputs: one AC, one DC. This is a slightly odd practice Tecumseh had: the idea was that only the battery charging circuit needed DC, the mower's lights were perfectly happy with AC, and that saved the trouble of rectifying part of the alternator output.

I'll explain the peculiarities of the Victa Pro 12's alternator connections. The intention was that the unrectified AC output from the Briggs' alternator was simply connected to the mower's wiring as shown in the diagram. The alternator output consisted of alternate positive and negative half waves. The mower cunningly fed the positive half waves to the charging circuit, and the negative half waves to the lighting circuit, separating the two voltage orientations by use of two diodes, one facing each way. These acted as traffic lights directing the positive and negative half waves as they intended.

Now it gets a bit trickier: I can't find your engine's type number in the Tecumseh tech manual. However there is one system that looks like yours, and you can verify whether it is actually the right one by feeling back along your red output wire to see if what looks like a slight bulge a few inches from the end, is actually a small cylindrical object (a diode). Here is the system and its description, from the Tecumseh manual:


Here is how you can test it, if you have a multimeter:

Essentially, if the diode is there, I think this will be what you have, but if you are handy with a meter, you can have some fun checking it out.

Now, if that system is what you have, and if your Pro 12 still has the wiring shown in the manual and reproduced earlier in this thread, you have a couple of ways you can proceed, depending on what you consider neat and workmanlike. If you want a system that works the same way as the Briggs one, just plug the AC output wire (yellow) into the same place the Briggs alternator output used to go, and safely put the DC wire (red) somewhere it won't cause any trouble by touching anything. If you want to use all the wires you have just for neatness, connect the red wire where the Briggs one went, and connect the yellow wire to the mower's white wire in the headlight circuit. Personally I think I'd wire it the Briggs way, because it is simpler and much easier for people to figure out later.

Of course we have to recognise that you've had the mower rewired, so whether it now looks anything like the system I posted above, from the mower's manual, is a mystery.


Edited by grumpy (30/06/12 11:37 PM)
Edit Reason: Insert edit correcting error
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#34136 - 26/02/12 01:47 AM Re: Victa Pro With Tecumesh 13 hp wiring Troubles [Re: grumpy]
leshby Offline
Trainee
Registered: 22/06/11
Posts: 78
Loc: mackay QLD Australia
the wiring is 98 percent original except for a voltage rectifier wired in to the lines. Auto sparky did it i don't under stand it totally. All i know it worked Being a boilermaker by trade i am not totally up to the wiring stuff. But am trying and willing to learn.
Regards
Leshby
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#34141 - 26/02/12 03:22 AM Re: Victa Pro With Tecumesh 13 hp wiring Troubles [Re: leshby]
grumpy Offline
Pushrod Honda preferrer
Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 6030
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Did he leave out the 2 rectifiers (i.e. diodes)? If he did, they need to be installed to make your electrical system work properly. I can tell you how to make it half-work without them, but that is just making a trap for the next person to work on the mower. I suggest you show the sparky the wiring diagram I posted above, and ask him to put it back the way it should be rather than screwing up your mower. Then, after he's fixed it, never go back to him.
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#34142 - 26/02/12 03:24 AM Re: Victa Pro With Tecumesh 13 hp wiring Troubles [Re: grumpy]
leshby Offline
Trainee
Registered: 22/06/11
Posts: 78
Loc: mackay QLD Australia
Hello Have wired the red and yellow wires in and it starts great. Only problem is when you turn the key off it doesnt turn off. Only when you put a wire from the green wire to earth to stop it. What is going wrong.
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#34150 - 26/02/12 03:58 AM Re: Victa Pro With Tecumesh 13 hp wiring Troubles [Re: leshby]
grumpy Offline
Pushrod Honda preferrer
Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 6030
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Your kill wire is not connected. We have gone around in circles a bit on that, when you said the green wire was grounded I looked quickly at the picture and thought the same. That seemed to make a sort of sense, since Tecumseh colours their ground wires green. However the wire is actually dark green, and it is actually insulated from the engine - it ends in a standard spade lug. On Tecumseh engines if they have a dark green wire, it is the kill wire, and you stop the engine by grounding it. On Briggs engines the kill wire is black.

If you look at the wiring diagram, you will find there is a black wire that connects to the engine, at a point labelled "magneto". That is the kill wire, and it is labelled wire 8 (Insert edit: it is wire 6, not wire 8) on the wiring diagram. That black wire was connected to your Briggs engine, and it now needs to be connected to the spade lug at the end of the dark green wire on the Tecumseh engine. When you connect it, the engine should stop whenever you switch it off.

Because the sparky apparently told you he'd left out a diode here and there, I don't know what is actually happening with your charging circuit. What does your ammeter (on the mower's dashboard) show when the engine is running? What does it show when the engine is not running?


Edited by grumpy (01/07/12 12:13 AM)
Edit Reason: Insert edit correcting error
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#34160 - 26/02/12 06:23 AM Re: Victa Pro With Tecumesh 13 hp wiring Troubles [Re: leshby]
leshby Offline
Trainee
Registered: 22/06/11
Posts: 78
Loc: mackay QLD Australia
Sorry the sparky added a square voltage rectifier sorry about the confusion. The wire for the magneto (kill Wire) if i attach that to the green wire on the Tecumseh motor it wont start. Then if i don't attach it it wont stop?? My guess is the green wire isn't the kill wire have spent the last 2hrs looking and following wires to check if correct and everything appears to be.
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#34164 - 26/02/12 07:57 AM Re: Victa Pro With Tecumesh 13 hp wiring Troubles [Re: leshby]
grumpy Offline
Pushrod Honda preferrer
Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 6030
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
It is the kill wire, or the engine wouldn't stop when you earth it - plus it is the kill wire under the Tecumseh wire colour code. The most likely reason the engine won't start when you attach the kill wire to the mower is that one of the safety switches is grounding the wire on the mower. Were you sitting on the seat? Did you have the cutter clutch disengaged? Unless your answer is yes to both, the kill wire was grounded when you tried to start the engine.

The square voltage rectifier will be a bridge rectifier, consisting of four diodes. Where did he put the bridge? Is it in the mower's red wire, which is now connected to the engine's yellow wire? What he has done may be a perfectly good solution, but at this point I don't know what he's done.
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#34167 - 26/02/12 09:23 AM Re: Victa Pro With Tecumesh 13 hp wiring Troubles [Re: grumpy]
leshby Offline
Trainee
Registered: 22/06/11
Posts: 78
Loc: mackay QLD Australia
no it is connected to the red and Briggs black wire. I have tried it with all checks in place wife on seat, hand brake locked in blades disengaged still to no avail.?????? what to try next.Just to double check the hand brake lock switch has 4 wires numbered 1-4 on it coloured black green blue and red Which corresponds with which number.


Edited by leshby (26/02/12 09:47 AM)
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#34175 - 26/02/12 11:09 AM Re: Victa Pro With Tecumesh 13 hp wiring Troubles [Re: leshby]
grumpy Offline
Pushrod Honda preferrer
Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 6030
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
I'm not sure what you are saying here. If the seat is occupied, the brake is on, and cutter clutch is disengaged, the engine should run unless it is stopped by the master switch being in the off position. To stop the engine if the master switch is not working properly you would have to have no one on the seat, and the brake off, or no one on the seat, and the cutter clutch engaged. Try that - carefully, and stay away from the cutter, and don't get in front of or behind the mower. If it stops under those circumstances - no one on the seat and the brake off or the cutter running - but doesn't stop when you switch off the master switch, there is something wrong with the master switch or the wires attached to it.

Terminal numbers on the handbrake switch are not given on the wiring diagram. The blue wire connects to an orange wire which goes to terminal 4 (fourth clockwise, viewed from the back of the switch) on the master switch. The green wire connects to another orange wire which goes to the starter solenoid. The purpose of those wires, and that part of the switch, is to keep the starter from working unless the handbrake is on. The green and blue wires should be connected to each other when the handbrake is on. If they are not, chances are the starter will not work, unless the wiring is messed up.

The black and red wires are in the kill switch circuit. They should be connected to each other when the handbrake is off. If the handbrake is on, the engine will still run even if there is nobody on the seat, as long as the cutter clutch is disengaged.

Please come back with the results of the first set of tests: will the engine keep running with no one on the seat, and the handbrake off?

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#34186 - 27/02/12 02:00 AM Re: Victa Pro With Tecumesh 13 hp wiring Troubles [Re: leshby]
leshby Offline
Trainee
Registered: 22/06/11
Posts: 78
Loc: mackay QLD Australia
Hello Grumpy, I am very intimate with every switch and piece of wire on the mower. I have tried and tested everything. Have tried all the checks with park brake Etc. It all works fine until i plug on that green wire. I should have stayed with a Briggs motor Every thing worked fine with the Briggs motor. chainsaw banghead WTF


Edited by leshby (27/02/12 02:06 AM)
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#34188 - 27/02/12 02:08 AM Re: Victa Pro With Tecumesh 13 hp wiring Troubles [Re: leshby]
grumpy Offline
Pushrod Honda preferrer
Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 6030
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Let's go at it a bit at a time, leshby.

1. What are the symptoms of the problem? From what you've said, I think your engine starts properly, but you have problems stopping it. You have to get off the mower, and ground the dark green wire to the engine. Is that right? Can you stop the engine by any combination of not sitting on the mower seat, leaving the handbrake released, engaging the cutter clutch, and turning off the master (key) switch?

2. Where did you connect the dark green wire on the mower? What colour is the wire you connected it to, and where does it go?

This problem is extremely simple, we just need to both get on the same page. At the moment I'm being frustrated by not seeming to get answers to my questions, and you are being frustrated by not being told what is wrong and how to fix it. We need to work together to overcome both sources of frustration.
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#34189 - 27/02/12 02:38 AM Re: Victa Pro With Tecumesh 13 hp wiring Troubles [Re: leshby]
leshby Offline
Trainee
Registered: 22/06/11
Posts: 78
Loc: mackay QLD Australia
1 Yes that is true i have to get off and attach the green wire to stop it if it stays connected it will turn over but not start.
the engine will not stop by the seat switch or hand brake or engaging cutters or turning off the key at all only to ground
the green wire.
2 the wire is the black magneto wire that connects to the seat switch
Yes i under stand the frustration I am sorry if i have frustrated you

cheers2
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#34190 - 27/02/12 03:07 AM Re: Victa Pro With Tecumesh 13 hp wiring Troubles [Re: leshby]
grumpy Offline
Pushrod Honda preferrer
Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 6030
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
I'm sure you are just as frustrated as I am, we can only cure it together. So, we know the green wire is the kill wire. Whenever it is grounded, the engine will not start, and if it is already running, it will stop. Now, we need to connect the green wire to the mower's kill wiring. That is the black wire marked 8 (Insert edit: this should read wire 6, not wire 8)on the wiring diagram, it was once connected to the black kill wire that came out of the Briggs engine, and now we need to connect it to the green kill wire on the Tecumseh engine. If the black wire 8 (Insert edit: this should read wire 6, not wire 8)ends in a spade connector, it can attach directly to the green wire where it ends, on the engine. If you can find that black wire that was being used previously it must be wire 8 (Insert edit: this should read wire 6, not wire 8), and if you attach it to the green wire's spade connector, we hope it will do exactly what it did when you had the Briggs engine.
1. Can you find black wire 8 (Insert edit: this should read wire 6, not wire 8), and was it the same wire you previously connected to a black wire coming out of the Briggs engine?
2. Did the Briggs engine stop when you got off the seat with the blades running or the handbrake not on, or when you turned off the master switch?
3. If the answers to Questions 1 and 2 are Yes, can you connect wire 8 (Insert edit: this should read wire 6, not wire 8) to the green wire's spade connector, and tell me whether it now works exactly as it did on the Briggs?


Edited by grumpy (30/06/12 11:45 PM)
Edit Reason: Insert edit correcting error
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#34191 - 27/02/12 03:22 AM Re: Victa Pro With Tecumesh 13 hp wiring Troubles [Re: leshby]
leshby Offline
Trainee
Registered: 22/06/11
Posts: 78
Loc: mackay QLD Australia
1 I am confused inst wire 8 a red wire from the solenoid to the ammeter see wiring diagram above. I believe it is wire 6 that goes to the magneto Black (number 6 i think) that you want If that is the one you mean yes i can find it and it has a spade plug to attach to the green wire.
2 yes the Briggs engine would stop if you turned the key off or got off seat with blades engaged
3 the answers to 1 and 2 i believe are both yes i have been connecting that wire all the time and it either wont start or stop
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