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Beginnings of a Tin Collection - Turner #84635
19/04/17 07:45 AM
19/04/17 07:45 AM
C
Captrusty  Offline OP
Apprentice level 2
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 129
Ipswich queensland
OK so I've decided to collect a few tins to go with the mowers my first one arrived today. Would appreciate any tips and pointers on what I should be keeping an eye out for and some good low end stuff that won't break the bank to get things started.

[Linked Image]

Here is the first of many I hope.


Victa Utility 509 in line for resto.
Scott bonnar model 33 already in pieces.
Atco reel mower unknown model is 4 stroke
Membership information
Re: Beginnings of a Tin Collection - Turner [Re: Captrusty] #84639
19/04/17 04:09 PM
19/04/17 04:09 PM
CyberJack  Offline
Forum Historian
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,847
Tasmania
Hello captrusty

Nice.
I can't say I have seen that can before, and I don't know how to
date it in specific terms.

I note the can is not specific about being for a 2-stroke or 4-stroke.
That is odd from looking at my records. Turner aligned themselves with Mobil.

The cans I have recorded have both been for 4-strokes, one from a
2012 auction; another from last year ...

[Linked Image]

Cheers
---------------
Jack


Re: Beginnings of a Tin Collection - Turner [Re: Captrusty] #84641
19/04/17 04:38 PM
19/04/17 04:38 PM
C
Captrusty  Offline OP
Apprentice level 2
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 129
Ipswich queensland
I'll have to have a closer look at it and see if I can find any reference either way .


Victa Utility 509 in line for resto.
Scott bonnar model 33 already in pieces.
Atco reel mower unknown model is 4 stroke
Re: Beginnings of a Tin Collection - Turner [Re: Captrusty] #84642
19/04/17 05:39 PM
19/04/17 05:39 PM
Kye Turnbull  Offline
Qualified Senior
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 610
Queensland Australia
Nice score.
If you don't want to brake the bank my best advice is this:
1. Get out there, head to swap meets early, try to find old blokes with lots of 'junk' in there shed. And look hard!

2. If you can't do that only collect the later stuff, around the metric change over, before this prices go through the roof.

3.Don't buy Golden Fleece, there Victa 18 can usually sells for around $2000 in a good condition

4.Stick to the mower cans! Don't get carried away and start collecting oil bottles and grease cans.

can collecting is even more expensive then Victa collecting...


Thanks for reading!
Re: Beginnings of a Tin Collection - Turner [Re: Captrusty] #84643
19/04/17 06:02 PM
19/04/17 06:02 PM
C
Captrusty  Offline OP
Apprentice level 2
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 129
Ipswich queensland
Cheers for that yes was definitely going to keep the scope of what I'd go for fairly narrow


Victa Utility 509 in line for resto.
Scott bonnar model 33 already in pieces.
Atco reel mower unknown model is 4 stroke
Re: Beginnings of a Tin Collection - Turner [Re: Captrusty] #84655
20/04/17 06:27 AM
20/04/17 06:27 AM
C
Captrusty  Offline OP
Apprentice level 2
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 129
Ipswich queensland
Had a good look at the tin Jack no reference to either two stroke or 4 stroke just a recommendation to use Mobil fuel I'll take a few more pics as the reverse side is different


Victa Utility 509 in line for resto.
Scott bonnar model 33 already in pieces.
Atco reel mower unknown model is 4 stroke
Re: Beginnings of a Tin Collection - Turner [Re: Captrusty] #84657
20/04/17 06:33 AM
20/04/17 06:33 AM
C
Captrusty  Offline OP
Apprentice level 2
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 129
Ipswich queensland
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


Victa Utility 509 in line for resto.
Scott bonnar model 33 already in pieces.
Atco reel mower unknown model is 4 stroke
Re: Beginnings of a Tin Collection - Turner [Re: Captrusty] #84658
20/04/17 06:40 AM
20/04/17 06:40 AM
CyberJack  Offline
Forum Historian
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,847
Tasmania
Hello Captrusty
Thanks. it would be nice to record this one.
I feel we needed more images, as you offer and now display.
Brilliant!

And thanks to Kye - who has fantastic knowledge in this area, and
has given sound advice there.

The whole garage sundries thing is a mine-field of exploitation,
with ridiculous prices being asked for looking at rust patina.

I will add this observation...
It was common for the big mower makers to align themselves with petroleum
companies. Victa and BP is a classic example.

This was a two-way commercial relationship ... I mean, Disney
toys in McHappy meals ... cool

I can't rule out that this can was made by Mobil, not Turner.
Best guess ... Mobil. Who knows?

-------------------
Jack

Re: Beginnings of a Tin Collection - Turner [Re: Captrusty] #84660
20/04/17 07:53 AM
20/04/17 07:53 AM
C
Captrusty  Offline OP
Apprentice level 2
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 129
Ipswich queensland
Not a problem I'll take some more artistic photos after work tomorrow also give it a quick clean make it a bit more presentable only problem now I'll have to find a mower to go with it haha.

Would be good to know the story behind the relationship between the two I think you might be not wrong with Mobil producing them as a marketing campaign possibly


Victa Utility 509 in line for resto.
Scott bonnar model 33 already in pieces.
Atco reel mower unknown model is 4 stroke
Re: Beginnings of a Tin Collection - Turner [Re: Captrusty] #84662
20/04/17 08:32 AM
20/04/17 08:32 AM
Kye Turnbull  Offline
Qualified Senior
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 610
Queensland Australia
I would say Mobil made the can Jack.

Seeing what mowers went with what brands is interesting.
Most brands recommend Wakefield Castrol (or castrol) at the beginning, off the top of my head the only brands I can remember not recommending Castrol was Rover, Sunbeam (Ampol), Southern Cross (Shell) and Turner (Mobil).
At the beginning of the 60s most brands that still survived turned from Castrol to BP. Pace was strange during this time, it was in a transitional period which saw it go from Castrol (also formerly Wakefield Castrol, which is a very hard can to get), to Ampol and then finally to BP within a very short time.
Pope would be a strange one too, it started making its first cans in the mid 1950s, but it wouldn't recommend a fuel brand until it joined Simpson in the early 70s, it would then team up with Mobil.

Its pretty much another huge part of the mower world. I would say most cans would have been made by a petroleum company.


Thanks for reading!
Re: Beginnings of a Tin Collection - Turner [Re: Captrusty] #84663
20/04/17 09:00 AM
20/04/17 09:00 AM
C
Captrusty  Offline OP
Apprentice level 2
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 129
Ipswich queensland
Quite interesting when you look at it like that may be like with cars your raised with one brand everything else is crap in comparison so anything associated with a brand must be the ducks guts .


Victa Utility 509 in line for resto.
Scott bonnar model 33 already in pieces.
Atco reel mower unknown model is 4 stroke
Re: Beginnings of a Tin Collection - Turner [Re: Captrusty] #84677
21/04/17 05:07 AM
21/04/17 05:07 AM
CyberJack  Offline
Forum Historian
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,847
Tasmania
Quote
Quite interesting when you look at it like that may be like with cars your raised with one brand everything else is crap in comparison so anything associated with a brand must be the ducks guts.

Hello Captrusty and Kye
I guess it is just like that ...
Economists have a technical name - 'Complimentary Products'.

I do have some points here:
[1] the role of complimentary products has expanded - massively -
since the 1980s. For example, who would have thought petrol and
food were complimentary. But look at all those servo stations
that have junk food and food markets annexed to them today!

[2] Mower makers' association with petrol companies was more
significant in the day. I remember that folks had brand loyalty.
Extensive advertising made folks believe that one brand of fuel
was better than another.

[3] I note your can reverses the order of importance on each side.
It's 'Turner Miboilgas' and then 'Mobilgas Turner'. Also note there
is no reference to a 2-stroke mix.

I feel Kye is right in his assessment: a Mobil can.

-----------------------
Jack

Re: Beginnings of a Tin Collection - Turner [Re: Captrusty] #84680
21/04/17 05:25 AM
21/04/17 05:25 AM
C
Captrusty  Offline OP
Apprentice level 2
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 129
Ipswich queensland
I hadn't clicked to the role reversal there that's a little interesting as for the lack of two stroke reference can only guess why for now plan on doing a little research see what I can find.


Victa Utility 509 in line for resto.
Scott bonnar model 33 already in pieces.
Atco reel mower unknown model is 4 stroke
Re: Beginnings of a Tin Collection - Turner [Re: Kye Turnbull] #84701
21/04/17 07:32 PM
21/04/17 07:32 PM
Gadge  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,364
Gippsland, Vic
Originally Posted by Kye Turnbull
I would say Mobil made the can Jack.

Seeing what mowers went with what brands is interesting.
Most brands recommend Wakefield Castrol (or castrol) at the beginning, off the top of my head the only brands I can remember not recommending Castrol was Rover, Sunbeam (Ampol), Southern Cross (Shell) and Turner (Mobil).
At the beginning of the 60s most brands that still survived turned from Castrol to BP. Pace was strange during this time, it was in a transitional period which saw it go from Castrol (also formerly Wakefield Castrol, which is a very hard can to get), to Ampol and then finally to BP within a very short time.

One thing about that transition is that Castrol was always a specialist, in lubricants only. So the transition was from a lubricant supplier, to the petroleum majors, which were and are suppliers of both fuels and lubricants.
Quote

Pope would be a strange one too, it started making its first cans in the mid 1950s, but it wouldn't recommend a fuel brand until it joined Simpson in the early 70s, it would then team up with Mobil.

Its pretty much another huge part of the mower world. I would say most cans would have been made by a petroleum company.
I feel I should make a minor point here, that actual manufacture of the cans would always have been outsourced.

The sheet metal has to be base coat painted, and the screen printed lettering and images applied, before it is cut into blanks. Which are then formed into can bodies, the long seam soft soldered or 'resistance welded', and the pre-formed ends crimped on.

This process has been the domain of specialised canmaking firms for quite a while. Some food industry canneries did once manufacture cans fully in-house, but even then, their paper labels were usually outsourced to specialist printeries.

Kye, a 2-stroke mower can type you might want to keep an eye out for, is the comparatively uncommon ones that incorporate a metal oil measure. These were always associated with a large screw-on cap - the 20L drum size. Some of them have a normal size cap as well!
The brands I've seen on these include BMS/Lawn Patrol [single cap] and Flymo/Scott Bonnar [dual cap].

Victa never had this feature though; their way was to have volume markings on the inside of the plastic funnels they supplied. So you held your finger against the spout, filled the funnel with oil to the appropriate line, then dumped the oil into the fuel can.
I might still have one of these funnels around; but for sure my old man has a couple, from his 1970s OPE business days.


Cheers,
Gadge
Re: Beginnings of a Tin Collection - Turner [Re: Captrusty] #84713
22/04/17 12:44 AM
22/04/17 12:44 AM
CyberJack  Offline
Forum Historian
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,847
Tasmania
G'day all
Who would have thought cans could be as interesting as cardboard boxes!

Thanks to Gadge for that point about outsourcing.

I have another observation about the Mobil/Turner can.
The Turner logo was essentially the name 'Turner' in that font style.
I wonder what the explanation is for the missing Mobil Pegasus logo?

---------------------
Jack



Re: Beginnings of a Tin Collection - Turner [Re: CyberJack] #84715
22/04/17 02:17 AM
22/04/17 02:17 AM
Gadge  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,364
Gippsland, Vic
Originally Posted by CyberJack
I wonder what the explanation is for the missing Mobil Pegasus logo?

I have a suggestion for that one.

It does look like there was a space for it on the can. But the lettering is in blue, and a bright red was always the colour of the Pegasus logo, IIRC.

However, red has always been the the most fade-prone colour, in dye-based inks that don't contain solid pigment particles. And the printing is done with ink, rather than paint.


Cheers,
Gadge
Re: Beginnings of a Tin Collection - Turner [Re: Captrusty] #84716
22/04/17 02:22 AM
22/04/17 02:22 AM
C
Captrusty  Offline OP
Apprentice level 2
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 129
Ipswich queensland
That's a good question they usually whack that on everything and any thing they can could of possibly just been an earlier tin with out the frills like multiple colors and logos


Victa Utility 509 in line for resto.
Scott bonnar model 33 already in pieces.
Atco reel mower unknown model is 4 stroke
Re: Beginnings of a Tin Collection - Turner [Re: Captrusty] #84739
22/04/17 11:37 AM
22/04/17 11:37 AM
CyberJack  Offline
Forum Historian
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,847
Tasmania
G'day all
I feel Gadge's explanation best explains an anomaly here.
I noticed that gap and it made no sense at the time.
It makes better sense now!

------------------
Jack

Re: Beginnings of a Tin Collection - Turner [Re: Captrusty] #84901
26/04/17 09:15 PM
26/04/17 09:15 PM
C
Captrusty  Offline OP
Apprentice level 2
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 129
Ipswich queensland
Found another identical Turner tin for sale also minus the Pegasus logo.


Victa Utility 509 in line for resto.
Scott bonnar model 33 already in pieces.
Atco reel mower unknown model is 4 stroke

Moderated by  Bruce, CyberJack 

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